dpa German Press Agency
Tehran- The presidents of Iran and Syria on Saturday vowedalliance against what they called US and Israeli conspiracies againstthe Islamic world.
ISNA news agency reported Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as sayingthat the Islamic world in general and Iran and Syria in particularshould maintain their vigilance and neutralise conspiracies aimed atsowing discord among Muslims.
Ahmadinejad said that what the US really aims for under thepretext of development in the region "is just another effort tostrengthen its own status and that of the Zionists (Israel)."ISNA quoted Syrian President Bashar al-Assad as saying thatexpansion of Tehran-Damascus ties would help resolve the problems ofthe Islamic world. He accused the US of trying to attract publicopinion within the Islamic world by undermining Iran-Syria relations.
The Syrian leader said Muslims worldwide should be informed about"the evil aims by the US and Zionists" which he said were sowingdiscord among Muslims.
Al-Assad arrived earlier Saturday in Tehran for a two-day visit todiscuss developments in the Middle East and was scheduled to alsomeet Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, former presidentAkbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani and chief nuclear negotiator Ali Larijani.
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***UPDATE***FURTHER INFORMATION CONCERNING THE TWO COMMENTS BELOW***UPDATE***
The Claim that Ishmael was the Sacrifice
Many Muslims allege that one indication that the Bible has been altered to discredit Islam is the story of Abraham and the divine command to sacrifice his son. Most Muslims insist that this son was Ishmael. The Bible, however, claims that the son was Isaac (Genesis 22:9, Hebrews 11:17, and James 2:21).
There is only one reference in all the Qur'an that relates this incident and it begins with Abraham making this request:
"O my Lord, grant me a righteous (son)!" So We gave him the good news of a boy
ready to suffer and forbear. Then when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious)
work with him, he said, "O my son, I see in a vision that I offer thee in
sacrifice. Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said, "O my father, do as thou
art commanded. Thou will find me if Allah so wills one practicing patience and
constancy!" So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah) and he had
laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice), We called out to him, "O
Abraham, thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" Thus indeed do we reward those
who do right. For this was obviously a trial -- and We ransomed him with a
momentous sacrifice. -- Surat-us Saffat (37):99-107
Notice carefully in this passage, which is the only one dealing with the sacrifice, that the name of the son is not given! It does indicate, however, that this was the boy whose birth was foretold as "good news." If one searches the whole Qur'an, he will find nothing mentioned about the birth of Ishmael. In fact very little is said about Ishmael, and absolutely nothing is said about the identity of his mother or his sons. It is from the Bible that we learn that Ishmael's mother was named Hagar, and that Ishmael had twelve sons (Gen. 25:12-17). Getting back to the "good news" mentioned in the above verse of the Qur'an, we read this about Isaac and his mother Sarah:
Has the story reached thee of the honored guests of Abraham? Behold, they
entered his presence and said 'Peace!" He said "Peace". ... They said, "Fear
not," and they gave him glad tidings of a son endowed with knowledge. But his
wife came forward (laughing) aloud! She smote her forehead and said, "A barren
old woman! " They said, "Even so has thy Lord spoken: and He is full of wisdom
and knowledge." -- Surat-uz Zariyat (51):24-25, 28-30
In addition to this, we read a summary of Abraham and Isaac which follows the Qur'anic passage dealing with the sacrifice:
Peace and salutation to Abraham! Thus indeed do we reward those who do right.
For he was one of Our believing Servants. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet - one of the righteous. We blessed him and Isaac. -- Surat-us Saffat (37):109-113
Notice the phrases "and they gave him glad tidings of a son" and "We gave him the good news of Isaac." No such wording can be found for the birth of Ishmael in the Qur'an. It should now be clear that the son about whom the good news was given and who was prepared for sacfifice as described in Sura 37:99-107 was not Ishmael, but Isaac which is exactly what the Bible teaches. In the beginning of this discussion, it was mentioned that most Muslims believe the son was Ishmael. Not all do! Those Muslims who have carefully studied the Qur'an realize that the evidence points to Isaac. For this very reason, Yusuf Ali in his world-renowned commentary of the Holy Qur'an, page 1204, note 4096, admits the following: "The boy thus born was according to Muslim tradition (which however is not unanimous on this point) the first-born of Abraham viz. Ismail." Notice the words "according to Muslim tradition" and "which however is not unanimous." It is obvious that the claim that the son was Ishmael is not according to the Qur'an!
It is important to be reminded that the Qur'an itself states that it came to confirm the previous Holy Books, not to contradict them. It appears that the Qur'an is in agreement with the Bible and that it is Muslim tradition which disagrees!
and
A response by Roger, an individual that is much more knowledgeable of the Bible than I:
Genesis 21:14 "Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba."
English translations [or any translation] need always careful analysis to see if they reflect the Hebrew and Greek. The Contemporary English Version is especially one not to waste time on because it was published in 1995 supposedly to be the Bible for Today's Family. The Muslims love the fallibility people have shown over the years in different translations but it means nothing. Go back to the Hebrew resolves a miss in translation.
Muslims love to lie. They love to play games. They'll throw a bunch of stuff together and tuck in a starting little lie; try to put a false image into your head about a woman carry a 17 year old on her shoulder when she really was carrying provisions. To make you doubt.
Ishmael has nothing to do with the advent of islam. God was with him; especially until he gained the skills as an archer to be self sufficient. Ishmael is not the father of islam; islam is not an Abrahamic faith but the workings of the antichrists; see again where it says allah out schemed the (Gospel)disciples of Jesus and allah faked His crucifixion [with a look-a-like] and therefore Jesus never lead the way in overcoming death. Who plays these same games? Who is always trying to swap persons? The slaves of allah. They even play games with macho feelings. I can say unashamedly I have cried as an adult as well as a teen aged boy and my plight was nothing near Ishmael's. Ishmael was a good man and a good son of Abraham. He had no quarrel with Isaac. When Abraham died the two got together to [lovingly] bury their father.
I don't read the koran for the purpose of finding translation faults to hold up high for all to see; I read to fully understand what Muslims say they believe. I wish to know exactly what they say and believe. And they say that God never had a Son and that I and the [Gospel]disciples of Christ are infidels for believing Jesus is the risen Son of God, the good Shepard who has led the way thru the valley of death and has conquered death and Jesus will return with eternal life for anyone who wishes to have life with Him. Muslims whole purpose is to help allah, the self-appointed imitator of God, to persuade/force humans away from eternal life and to serve allah as slaves. They are in bondage and use their physical might to keep the abomination that causes desolation on the wing of the Temple Mount with the inscriptions put there that say God never had a Son for all to see. Let all people know and if any have ears let them hear the words of [the Gospel ]Jesus.
I shall post more information once I receive responses from a couple of more invididuals that have an indepth knowledge of the Bible.
and
Although God is "the Father of the spirits of all flesh (Num. 27:16; Heb. 12:9)," it is evident that not all sons are created equal. Let me give you an example. The first son that Abraham had was Ishmael. Ishmael was conceived when Sarah had despaired that she would ever bear the son of promise. She persuaded Abraham to take unto him her Egyptian maidservant, Hagar. Ishmael is a type of the son of the flesh, rather than promise. Abraham loved Ishmael! He was indeed his son, and undoubtedly a beautiful and winsome child. But — while Ishmael was the son of Abraham, he was also the son of the Egyptian bondwoman. The analog is just this — your first birth is that of Ishmael. It’s the love of the Father, it’s the Father’s son, His very offspring — but it’s born out of the Father in an Egyptian (earthly, worldly, sensual) mind. Abraham could not tell that when he looked at his son — he looked at Ishmael and all he saw was his son. His bowels cried out, "This is my son — O Lord, please bless Ishmael!" But the Lord responded, "No — in Isaac shall thy seed be called." "Who in the world is Isaac, Lord? What do you mean, Isaac? Sarah is ninety years old — how are you going to give me a baby?"
But the record states: "He believed." And in that wonderful day when Isaac was born the Bible says that Ishmael mocked the son of promise. And then Abraham could see the real nature of things. Two sons — two natures — but both from one father. One of the low realm of the flesh, and one from above by the power of God. Can we not see by this how it is that God is the Father of the spirits of all flesh.
J. Preston Eby
Pertinent Links:
1) Iran and Syria vow alliance against US, Israel
3 comments:
GENESIS: 21:14 - 21
So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water, and gave it to Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, along with the (17 YEAR OLD) child, and sent her away. And she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-Sheba. When the water in the skin was gone, she cast the (17 YEAR OLD) child under one of the bushes. Then she went, and sat down over against him a good way off, about the distance of a bowshot; for she said, “Let me not look upon the death of the (17 YEAR OLD) child.” And as she sat over against him, the (17 YEAR OLD) child lifted up his voice and wept. And God heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven, and said to her, “What troubles you, Hagar? Fear not; for God has heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad where he is. Arise, lift up the (17 YEAR OLD) lad, and hold him fast with your hand; for I will make him a great nation.” Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the skin with water, and gave the (17 YEAR OLD) lad a drink. And God was with the (17 YEAR OLD) lad, and he grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt.
Ahmadinejad,
You sir need to read more carefully, the Bible verse Genesis 21:14 states the following:
14 Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba.
It was the food & water that Abraham set on Hagar shoulders, it was not the water, food and Ishmael.
The remainder of your argument becomes moot as of this point.
If you wish to study further, you may want to scrool up, because I am going to post more information directly below the original post.
Thanks for a good attempt at trying to delegitimize Israel/Judaism and replace it with Islam.
A.I.
P.S. American Infidel is female.
Genesis 21:14 Contemporary English version se below link
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=GENESIS%2021;&version=46;
Early the next morning Abraham gave Hagar an animal skin full of water and some bread. Then he put the boy on her shoulder and sent them away.
Ahmadinejad/Annonymous:
1) In my response to you, I asked that you scroll up for fuller responses to you post.
2) If you fail to address the responses I posted, I shall make sure to delete any further comments made by you. Quoting & linking to a rather poor translation of the Bible and failing to address that very answer does not a discussion make.
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